Israel / Palestine

[Nodack]

Nobody should but they do. How do you win a war without inflicting civilian casualties? USSR lost 7 million civilians in WWII. Poland lost over 5 million civilians. Germany 3.5 million and Japan 1.3 million civilians killed. I know I sound like they did it so why can’t Israel? I am saying try winning a war without inflicting civilian deaths. I don’t know if I have ever seen that happen. Is Israel inflicting more civilian deaths than necessary? Maybe so. What is the necessary number?

Looking at this purely from a strategic military position and you are Israel, who just experienced on your own soil the worst attack on against your people since the Holocaust, how do you respond? Do you even respond? Hamas and every different version of it has vowed to wipe you off the planet. They also govern the people in Gaza, where all their attacks come from. They built a very extensive network of underground caves to thwart and Israeli attack and a Hamas soldier looks exactly the same as any normal Palestinian and in most cases is. Do you just write off the attack every time one comes and chalk it up to bad defense? They just killed 1200 people and took a bunch hostage. They have been attacking you for many many decades along with other nearby countries that shared the same hatred of you. Now you call the shots in Israel. What do you do?

[Nodack]

This time Israel said enough. We are done with this stupid game.

Unfortunately, the current strategy of unleashing death and destruction until their spirit is broken is not going to end this stupid game.

Perhaps not. The other way hasn’t worked either for 70+ years.

[Split T]

Nobody should but they do. How do you win a war without inflicting civilian casualties? USSR lost 7 million civilians in WWII. Poland lost over 5 million civilians. Germany 3.5 million and Japan 1.3 million civilians killed. I know I sound like they did it so why can’t Israel? I am saying try winning a war without inflicting civilian deaths. I don’t know if I have ever seen that happen. Is Israel inflicting more civilian deaths than necessary? Maybe so. What is the necessary number?

Looking at this purely from a strategic military position and you are Israel, who just experienced on your own soil the worst attack on against your people since the Holocaust, how do you respond? Do you even respond? Hamas and every different version of it has vowed to wipe you off the planet. They also govern the people in Gaza, where all their attacks come from. They built a very extensive network of underground caves to thwart and Israeli attack and a Hamas soldier looks exactly the same as any normal Palestinian and in most cases is. Do you just write off the attack every time one comes and chalk it up to bad defense? They just killed 1200 people and took a bunch hostage. They have been attacking you for many many decades along with other nearby countries that shared the same hatred of you. Now you call the shots in Israel. What do you do?

I’m not Israel and I’m not a military strategist, so I’m not going to entertain your question. We are not gong to agree, I think I’ll exit the conversation.

[Nodack]

I’m sorry I made you uncomfortable. It’s an uncomfortable topic. You entered the conversation and expressed your displeasure with the way Israel has handled the situation like most have. You don’t like what Israel is doing. I ask everyone who is critical of the way Israel is handling the situation what they think Israel should be doing. Don’t feel bad, nobody has the answer.

[Mori Chu]

I ask everyone who is critical of the way Israel is handling the situation what they think Israel should be doing. Don’t feel bad, nobody has the answer.

You've said this, and I and others have responded. What they should be doing is NOT committing genocide by exterminating an entire group of innocent civilians over the course of 10 months. Somehow that answer has not stuck with you.

[Split T]

I’m sorry I made you uncomfortable. It’s an uncomfortable topic. You entered the conversation and expressed your displeasure with the way Israel has handled the situation like most have. You don’t like what Israel is doing. I ask everyone who is critical of the way Israel is handling the situation what they think Israel should be doing. Don’t feel bad, nobody has the answer.

I’m not uncomfortable with you. The topic is uncomfortable, I just think we’ve said the same things to each other over and over and there’s no need to continue having the same discussion. I think we both know where we stand.

[Nodack]

I ask everyone who is critical of the way Israel is handling the situation what they think Israel should be doing. Don’t feel bad, nobody has the answer.

You've said this, and I and others have responded. What they should be doing is NOT committing genocide by exterminating an entire group of innocent civilians over the course of 10 months. Somehow that answer has not stuck with you.

That hasn’t stuck with me because it isn’t really an answer. What you are really telling me is that Hamas/Palestinians should be allowed to attack Israel whenever they want for the rest of eternity and Israel should just accept it as reality and not do anything about it. When Hamas does attack you will say it’s a bad thing and they shouldn’t do it and forget about it the next day.

This is why this conflict is never ever going to end.

[specialsauce]

I ask everyone who is critical of the way Israel is handling the situation what they think Israel should be doing. Don’t feel bad, nobody has the answer.

You've said this, and I and others have responded. What they should be doing is NOT committing genocide by exterminating an entire group of innocent civilians over the course of 10 months. Somehow that answer has not stuck with you.

That hasn’t stuck with me because it isn’t really an answer. What you are really telling me is that Hamas/Palestinians should be allowed to attack Israel whenever they want for the rest of eternity and Israel should just accept it as reality and not do anything about it. When Hamas does attack you will say it’s a bad thing and they shouldn’t do it and forget about it the next day.

This is why this conflict is never ever going to end.

Stop saying Hamas/Palestenians.

You Trump/American. You slave owner. You Tuskegee experiment filth. You anti-women's rights American. You're an awful American separating kids from their parents at the border. You're a terrible American pummeling an entire country of Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11 and leaving Afghanistan in shambles just to chase after one group that took responsibility for 9/11, disregarding the millions of innocent civilians lives that were ruined.

You see how that works?

[Nodack]

I see what you are trying to say. I am just not buying it. If you guys want to say the Palestinians had/have nothing to do with attacking Israel for the past 70+ years and are just innocent people who just want to live happily side by side with their Israeli neighbors in the spirit of friendship, then go ahead.

[Split T]

Your comments are all just one extreme or the other. You don’t leave any space in the middle.

Certainly some Palestinians support Hamas and have participated in the attacks on Israel…that doesn’t mean they all do and have…your comments imply they are all guilty.

Also, the fact that we don’t agree with the actions taken by Israel doesn’t mean we think they should just do nothing and take whatever Hamas does to them with no response. There are options in between committing genocide and doing nothing.

[specialsauce]

I see what you are trying to say. I am just not buying it. If you guys want to say the Palestinians had/have nothing to do with attacking Israel for the past 70+ years and are just innocent people who just want to live happily side by side with their Israeli neighbors in the spirit of friendship, then go ahead.

Your hands have the blood of millions of innocent victims as well then. How do you sleep at night? Actually, how do your Mexican, black and Muslim neighbors sleep knowing someone with full culpability for the crimes by the Us government against them is their next door neighbor?

You see how that works?

[specialsauce]

Your comments are all just one extreme or the other. You don’t leave any space in the middle.

Certainly some Palestinians support Hamas and have participated in the attacks on Israel…that doesn’t mean they all do and have…your comments imply they are all guilty.

Also, the fact that we don’t agree with the actions taken by Israel doesn’t mean we think they should just do nothing and take whatever Hamas does to them with no response. There are options in between committing genocide and doing nothing.

It's crazy how targeted strikes can occur in one instance and then just a diarrhea of death in another. Total coincidence right, not willful murder of children

[Nodack]

Like you guys, I am tired of talking about this. I wish no harm on the Palestinian people or the Jewish people. I wish them luck in their endeavors. I’ve said what I believe.

[specialsauce]

Like you guys, I am tired of talking about this. I wish no harm on the Palestinian people or the Jewish people. I wish them luck in their endeavors. I’ve said what I believe.

It's pretty annoying that you continue to come back on this topic and then back out like that when pressed TBH

[Nodack]

I see what you are trying to say. I am just not buying it. If you guys want to say the Palestinians had/have nothing to do with attacking Israel for the past 70+ years and are just innocent people who just want to live happily side by side with their Israeli neighbors in the spirit of friendship, then go ahead.

Your hands have the blood of millions of innocent victims as well then. How do you sleep at night? Actually, how do your Mexican, black and Muslim neighbors sleep knowing someone with full culpability for the crimes by the Us government against them is their next door neighbor?

You see how that works?

I see you talking gibberish now.

[Mori Chu]

We could just, you know, not send them 500 aircraft and 50k tons of military equipment. They just directly use all this equipment to kill innocent Palestinians.

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/ ... 7440374011

[Mori Chu]

More devastation of Palestine by Israeli military action. I guess all these people must secretly be evil Hamas operatives? Their hospitals, schools, homes, they must all secretly be Hamas bases? Might as well raze the whole place to the ground; you can never be too careful. Just defending ourselves! 10/7 justifies infinite aggression against civilians, women, children.

https://twitter.com/AidaTuma/status/1828752427274674475

[specialsauce]

I see what you are trying to say. I am just not buying it. If you guys want to say the Palestinians had/have nothing to do with attacking Israel for the past 70+ years and are just innocent people who just want to live happily side by side with their Israeli neighbors in the spirit of friendship, then go ahead.

Your hands have the blood of millions of innocent victims as well then. How do you sleep at night? Actually, how do your Mexican, black and Muslim neighbors sleep knowing someone with full culpability for the crimes by the Us government against them is their next door neighbor?

You see how that works?

I see you talking gibberish now.

I thought you're exiting this topic. Your mind is clearly made up that Palestinians should be wiped off the face of the earth. So move on.

[Nodack]

Make up whatever makes you sleep better tonight.

[virtual9mm]

I see what you are trying to say. I am just not buying it. If you guys want to say the Palestinians had/have nothing to do with attacking Israel for the past 70+ years and are just innocent people who just want to live happily side by side with their Israeli neighbors in the spirit of friendship, then go ahead.

Your hands have the blood of millions of innocent victims as well then. How do you sleep at night? Actually, how do your Mexican, black and Muslim neighbors sleep knowing someone with full culpability for the crimes by the Us government against them is their next door neighbor?

You see how that works?

I see you talking gibberish now.

I have to admit that I buy Sauce's analogy here. And another one that's relevant -- if you believe that the Palestinians are culpable as a whole for the actions of Hamas, you have to admit that the Israelis are culpable as a whole for an indiscriminatory bombing campaign.

Saucy -- let's try to keep things civil, shall we? Nodack -- in the 20-something years I've known you, I've never seen you this worked up about anything.